GEOFF HUTCHISON
Premier good morning to you. The Finks are coming to town, Premier, does it give you a shiver of concern?
COLIN BARNETT
Certainly not pleased about that and they are already under very strict monitoring. Hopefully they will behave themselves while they’re here, but outlaw bikie gangs is a serious problem and they’re clearly heavily involved in organised crime. So they will be watched and we will use and deploy a significant amount of police resources.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Are you confident that the Attorney General is going to be able to legislate these kind of bikie gangs out of existence?
COLIN BARNETT
Look, I don’t know that he will be able to legislate them totally out of existence but certainly he will curtail their activities, and make it a lot easier for them to be prosecuted if they engage in illegal activities. I’ve got no objection to people riding round on bikes, but if they involve themselves in criminal activities, then they will be pursued.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
We had the South Australian Attorney General on the program a little while ago, Michael Atkinson, and he talked about their activities and also their ability to fight strongly when they go to court; asked him where the money comes from and he says from drugs and from extortion. It seems groups like these are clever, they are well resourced and there is a perception that they think they can operate above the law.
COLIN BARNETT
I think that’s a fair summary, and you know, we’ve had problems with gangs here but clearly they have been more serious in other parts of Australia, and you know, Western Australia is probably seen as a target. This is a relatively prosperous state, high incomes, probably people, you know, experimenting, trying drugs, the lot. So I’d expect that we will see more attempts by groups like this to enter into Western Australia and establish here.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Are you confident that you can stop them from being established here?
COLIN BARNETT
We will do all that we can. I can’t foretell the future but look, I’m confident we will curtail any activities they might get up to. Can we absolutely wipe them out, probably not, but we’ll do everything we can.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Let’s hear from [Caller]. [greetings not transcribed].
[CALLER]
Mr Premier I’m a school cleaner in Government education and like many of us, we are absolutely terrified we’re about to be privatised. Can you put our fears to rest?
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Sorry, the Premier’s having a bit of difficulty, just… just… Premier just take your headphones off and if you don’t mind posing the question again [Caller], it’s about the privatisation of school cleaners.
[CALLER]
That’s right, yes.
COLIN BARNETT
Oh okay. Look, there have always been a mix of, if you like, in house school cleaners and contract school cleaners. The important issue is that the school is cleaned properly and that school principals and senior staff aren’t having to spend their time on issues like that. I’d much rather them concentrate on teaching children. Not privatise, I don’t think… it’s not selling off school cleaning, but I support the mixed use of both contract cleaners where it’s appropriate and in house cleaners where that’s appropriate, and those decisions I think are best really determined at a school level.
[CALLER]
Okay, so what you are is saying is you have no thoughts of actually making that mandatory, that schools use contract cleaners…
COLIN BARNETT
… no we…
[CALLER]
… you’re going to leave it to school based level.
COLIN BARNETT
Well school based and Education Department. We’re not going to mandate that, although many schools prefer to have contract cleaners. I was an education minister in the 90s and I think the majority of schools had in house cleaners, if you like, but a significant number had contract cleaners. What works best, what I want to see is the schools kept clean and people doing their job well, and the principals able to concentrate on the education program for the children.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
[Caller] thank you for your call, mate. We’ll get on to our next caller in a moment.
Premier, the Opposition says it’s a sackable or jailable offence. What in your view, did Troy Buswell actually do wrong?
COLIN BARNETT
Look, it’s a serious issue, it was a serious mistake. Country Members of Parliament are entitled to an accommodation allowance when they’re in Perth attending Parliament, dealing with parliamentary and ministerial duties.
In Troy’s case, the form detailing the nights he was in Perth was filled out by his staff in his Busselton electorate office, they had a wrong date in there, Troy signed it, he accepts responsibility for that, he accepts it was a mistake and it happened. I’m not happy about it…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… have you spoken to him about it? Is he on notice?
COLIN BARNETT
Oh no, look, but he came to me as soon as he became aware of that, very apologetic and it is a serious mistake. Is it a sackable offence, not it’s not, it’s not. If there was any intent of any Member of Parliament, particularly a Minister, to somehow misuse or take advantage of an allowance or claim something that was not properly intended, then that would be a sackable offence. And look it happened, it’s serious, but it’s being corrected and look I… one of the difficulties is there are all sorts of different little components of the job of being a Member of Parliament. Some are administered by the Department of Premier and Cabinet, some by the Parliament, some by the Salaries and Allowances Tribunal, some effectively under the Tax Office, and mistakes can occur. That doesn’t excuse, it but it was a mistake, there was no intent to do the wrong thing at all.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
How soon before Robert Cock determines whether some of these allowances are no longer justifiable? How soon before Kim Hames and Troy Buswell perhaps, lose that entitlement, given they already have homes in the city?
COLIN BARNETT
Yeah can I… Robert Cock won’t be determining that. As a senior counsel, an experienced person, he will be working with me on that. Now many of these things have been determined independently. I will probably get criticised for interfering, but I am about to interfere. It is wrong, some of the arrangements, I am going to look at it personally…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… which ones are wrong?
COLIN BARNETT
Look, I think there are questions about accommodation allowances, the distinction if someone owns a house in Perth as distinct from maybe renting accommodation or staying in… you know, short stay accommodation. Maybe there’s a distinction that needs to be made there. There is virtually a lack of rules relating to the so-called imprest travel account. Now if Members of Parliament should travel, that’s part of their job, particularly for West Australia, that’s so export orientated, but that needs to be tightened up. There’s a whole lot of things and it’s almost a trap. Members of Parliament, you know, I think, do the right thing and work hard but sometimes I get caught out by this, and I think there’s got to be a modernisation of these entitlements, they’ve got to actually reflect modern standards.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
[Caller], good morning to you. [greetings not transcribed].
[CALLER]
I have a question, Colin. When is the infill sewerage program going to be reinstated?
COLIN BARNETT
Look the… the infill sewerage program is a great program, it was actually introduced under the Liberal/National Government of the 90s…
[CALLER]
… yeah we know all that.
COLIN BARNETT
Yeah no, well I just want to… [Caller], I just want to answer your question please, if I may. It was introduced, it was getting a massive level of funding, funding was reduced a few years ago. We faced a… hopefully short-term financial crisis as we came into Government, with something like, you know…
[CALLER]
…we’ve…
COLIN BARNETT
… hang on…
[CALLER]
… we’ve had no change down here in Cockburn…
COLIN BARNETT
….yeah…
[CALLER]
… we can’t go through another winter with septic tanks here in Cockburn, so when is it going to be reinstated?
COLIN BARNETT
[Caller] I’m trying to answer your question politely. I understand the issue in Cockburn and Cockburn has been an area that is yet to be done; over… since ’95 there have been thousands of homes in Perth that have had retrospectively deep sewerage connected. Now there are some health issues in Cockburn, I’m aware of that…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… these people are desperate, Premier.
COLIN BARNETT
Yes they are but this issue has not suddenly appeared. Cockburn has been on a list and you know, thousands of homes have been done, most under the Liberal/National Government. Now we had to suspend the program because we simply did not have the money to fund it. We will reinstate the program and Cockburn will be done…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… but when will it be done, because the issues here are… and we’ve seen them on our news’ for such a long time. These people have walked out of their backyards, part of the backyard collapses, they are awash in waste.
COLIN BARNETT
Yeah and it’s unhealthy and there’s some evidence around that…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… and they have to wait, what… two years? Well, your Minister said 12 months to two years.
COLIN BARNETT
We will be reinstating the program and Cockburn is… it will be, you know, a highest priority area. I’m aware of that, but this program didn’t just start, you know, a year ago, this is a program that was put in place with places in order of priority from 1995 on. Now it’s slowed down and we had to suspend it for a short period of time because we simply did not have the money to pay for it.
[CALLER]
We had it suspended under the Labor Government and we’ve had it suspended under the Liberal Government. This is being used as a political football or lord knows what else, what other type of football it’s being used for, but this issue should transcend politics. It is not a political issue, this is a basic sanitation issue. Get off your arses and fix it.
COLIN BARNETT
[Caller], I don’t answer questions like that. We will attend to Cockburn because there is a health issue and it’s taken a long time. One of the problems we’ve had is when deep sewerage has been put down and not everyone’s connected, that’s been a dilemma because it is expensive. It’s expensive for the utility and it can be expensive for residents but I’m aware, and there are… there is some health evidence coming about the serious situation in Cockburn. We’ve had a wet winter this year, that’s probably possibly exacerbated the problem but it will be done, and as part of this year’s coming budget we will reinstate the program and hopefully then we can do Cockburn.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
But see this is where we want to clarify it because [Caller] may not have been very polite but he is intense and they are desperate and they’ve been living with this for a long time. You wouldn’t live with it in your backyard, I wouldn’t live with it in my backyard. Now you say that your Minister says it will be 12 months to two years. The Water Corp has said it could be four years because they don’t have it in their forward estimates.
COLIN BARNETT
Now this is a program that is funded out of consolidated revenue so the Water Corp is in a sense, technically correct. This will be a decision of Government about reinstating the program, not the Water Corp.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
How much will it cost?
COLIN BARNETT
Well the program I think at one stage was running at about $80million a year, it’s a very expensive program, and anyone that sees deep sewerage being installed, it’s a major engineering exercise. It’s a terrific program. When it started in ’95…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… sure, but we’re looking at 100 homes in Cockburn and we’ve been told it cost $5-8million.
COLIN BARNETT
Yeah it’s a lot per household, isn’t it?
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Well…the issue is, are you prepared to wear this for another two or three years of people looking on their televisions at regular intervals and seeing these poor people who are in real desperate circumstances.
COLIN BARNETT
Yeah, Geoff I understand that, I understand that, and we will deal with it, but this problem didn’t just occur this year. This has been a problem, I…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… no but these people have been fighting the fight since what, 2005.
COLIN BARNETT
No, I have relatives, I know people in the area, this has been going on for a long time, a long time, years, and whether the wetter winter this year has been a contributing factor, I don’t know, but we had no choice but to suspend that program. We have only deferred it, it will come back on stream and given the health issues which you’ll probably know a bit more about in the next few days, given the health issues which do exist in that area, that’s obviously going to be a priority area.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
With respect, Premier, if this was happening in Cottesloe, it would be fixed.
COLIN BARNETT
I think that’s very unfair, Geoff, it’s not the case.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Why? Why is it unfair?
COLIN BARNETT
Well there are areas of my electorate that don’t have deep sewerage. City Beach, areas like that, and they haven’t been done.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Is waste spewing into the backyards at City Beach?
COLIN BARNETT
Well there are problems of effluent getting into the water system, yeah.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
You know it’s not the same thing, Premier.
COLIN BARNETT
No, but I resent the fact, Geoff, that you imply there’s a bias here, there is not. There has been a properly constructed program since ’95 and Cockburn is on… it’s been on that program and we’ve delayed it, we deferred it for a year, that’s all we have done. There’s been no politics in this, it’s just simply been a financial issue and I recognise the severe problems that are existing in that area. I know people in the area, I’ve spoken to them, and it will be done.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
My guest this morning as you know is the Premier, Colin Barnett. [Caller], good morning [greetings not transcribed].
[CALLER]
I recently saw a Four Corners program dealing with carbon capture and storage. An American expert said it was essential for the proposed area for storage to be thoroughly analysed before any storage of CO2 is carried out. Can you inform the public how extensive these tests have been carried out on Barrow Island and at what level of contamination, if that does occur, will you require Gorgon… Gorgon project to stop the underground storage of CO2? Also, what is the likely cost of the cleanup to the West Australian public, in the event of a leak occurring?
COLIN BARNETT
Well look, literally tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars have already been spent on proving up the suitability of those geological structures, if you like, beneath Barrow Island. This is the largest geosequestration project ever undertaken in the world. There have been others, there are about three or four, Norway being one example. I am absolutely confident it will work. The CO2 injection and the monitoring and all responsibility lies with the Gorgon joint venture, right through the life of the project and I think for another 20-odd years after the project finishes, thereafter the liability falls 80 percent on the Commonwealth Government, and 20 percent on the State Government. So that’s broadly the deal that has been struck.
Look, you know, in terms of cleanup, I don’t expect the CO2 to escape. CO2 is below the ground, I mean the CO2 has come from below the ground, it will be reinjected into a similar structure and it should stay there forever, there’s no reason why it should come out. If it does come out… you say cleanup, well it is carbon dioxide, I mean, there is no pollution, it is a greenhouse gas which is very common in the atmosphere, we’re breathing it in and out all the time, so it’s not a cleanup exercise, it’s about maintaining a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
[Caller] thank you. [Caller] good morning to you. [greetings not transcribed].
[CALLER]
Transportation of prisoners by any Government department is my subject. Some 8-years ago a young man was bounced out the back of a police paddy wagon at Fitzroy Crossing. There was an inquest at which the coroner determined that what had went wrong was the police had failed to padlock him in. Then we had the Mr Ward case…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… we’re familiar with the history, [Caller], what’s the question?
[CALLER]
And now we find that the police are using paddy wagons to transport Aboriginal people around the bush to various court hearings and whatever. So what I’m saying is that clearly the state law as it applies to me, if I want to stick a tin box on the back of a ute and register it, DPI will refuse me, does not apply to Government departments. My question is, when do we stop treating Aboriginal people like cattle, and when do we just permit them to sit in a motor vehicle?
GEOFF HUTCHISON
[Caller], thank you.
COLIN BARNETT
Well that’s… I hope that we don’t in any way mistreat Aboriginal people in the way you described. Following the very… the horrific and tragic death of Mr Ward, this Government took the decision - the previous government didn’t do anything – we took the decision to replace the entire fleet of vehicles used for the transport of prisoners; Aboriginal, white prisoners, everyone. Now look I… you know, I guess there may be situations with any prisoner where there might be, you know, behaviour, there might be drunkenness and whatever else, the police have to deal with that, but there are suitable vehicles and strict procedures been put in place whether they be transfers by police or by private contractors. Not always an easy job in every circumstance but nevertheless we’ve got to make sure that we never have a repeat of the situation as happened with Mr Ward.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
And yet it was… and just taking up [Caller’s] point, it was recorded in yesterday’s paper I think, a 17-year-old boy who was transported from Jurien Bay to Geraldton, he was on car theft and criminal damage charges. He travelled 175km in a canvas-covered cage with no seatbelt. Now I know the police hate doing this, but the issue seems to be also about magistrates and their willingness to hear testimony by video lin, and that seems to be the way you might be able to deal with some of these issues, but I don’t know that the magistrates want that either.
COLIN BARNETT
Yeah look that’s a fair comment and you know, I can’t understand why it is that we are transporting prisoners all over the state, I mean it is incredibly expensive and proved to be at times, extremely dangerous and unsuitable. Hopefully we can do that, Christian Porter, with as… both Attorney General and Corrective Services Minister, is spending a lot of his time in trying to modernise and streamline this system – not simply about money but actually making it safer and more effective. And we are… we are… police resources are being tied up by transporting prisoners backwards and forwards and it’s a crazy system.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
How many country members, writes [Emailer], use their allowance to purchase a second home and then keep them once they leave the job? Do you think keeping the home is fair and should they not be returned to the state? We’re getting quite a lot of calls just on that, on that issue of the appropriateness of $30,000.
COLIN BARNETT
Yeah and look that has… that has concerned me for many years. I’ve thought, and I mean I’m a city member so it’s in a sense easier for me. The allowance in principle is correct. Country Members of Parliament do have to be in Perth for Parliament and other duties and therefore like in any employment, they are entitled to some sort of accommodation allowance.
For many years country Members of Parliament have basically bought a unit, a flat or whatever else in Perth and sometimes a home, and in fact two houses, and that allowance has basically paid off a large part of their mortgage. Now that’s not uncommon, that’s the same thing that happens with the federal Members of Parliament working in Canberra.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Sure but you know it’s all happening at a time when everyone’s being told to tighten their belts and…
COLIN BARNETT
… ah yeah but the principle I say, Geoff, the principle is that a… an accommodation away from home allowance, is appropriate, that’s step one. Step two, if people rent, you know, stay in a motel, hotel, whatever else, there’s no argument. If they choose to buy a property, then I think there is a case that the allowance they get is reduced in recognition of that because they do, it’s their property, they get it, they get the capital gain and I think that’s one of the things I will be looking at. Now that’s not going to win me any friends with country Members of Parliament on either side of the House.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Hey, just on the subject of country Members of Parliament. It’s Thursday and no mention this week about your retail trading crusade. Have you… have you consciously, because you were so cross about it last week, are you consciously, taken a step back? Is this just a breather or do we go full steam ahead next week?
COLIN BARNETT
Look I certainly have not given up. We had Parliament down in Bunbury this week, didn’t seem to me to be the point to be arguing about Perth’s shopping hours in Bunbury, although ironically Bunbury has Sunday trading and you drive a few kilometres down the road to Australind and you can have weeknight trading to, so there’s a country town that’s got choice, and I think it is basically selfish for Members of Parliament not to be allowing people to shop when they wish to. I am very disappointed in Members of Parliament not representing what the community clearly wants in the City of Perth.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
I know they’ve had… last time I saw the Westpoll with about 6,000 votes taken, they were discussing Brendon Grylls approach to retail trading in the city, I think it was about 4,500 votes to one-and-a-half, perhaps not that many for Mr Grylls. How do you get past the perception that when it matters, and you get all red-faced and serious in Parliament, the tail is still wagging the dog?
COLIN BARNETT
The tail doesn’t wag the dog at all. Brendon’s got his position, I think he’s wrong, I’ve told him that, he’s aware of that but look, this is in the capacity of city Members of Parliament to simply respond to what their electorate want. All I’m saying is a modest increase in shopping hours till eight o’clock at night.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Will you get what you want? Will you be able to extend that tourism precinct and make those changes about there being that motion in Parliament that could just knock it on the head?
COLIN BARNETT
Oh look, we can use administrative measures to expand boundaries, extend hours, but it’s clumsy, it’s awkward, it’s not what I want to do. And sure, I mean the Parliament can do anything. You know, someone can bring in a disallowance motion, someone can bring in a piece of legislation, the difference is they’ll actually be acting to take away someone’s entitlement of choice of shopping hours.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
How important is this to you, to your leadership?
COLIN BARNETT
Oh look I don’t… I wouldn’t overstate it Geoff, it’s something I have always supported, that we should be giving choice to businesses and to consumers and that’s what I want to see happen. I find it frustrating that I’m spending… not a huge amount of time but there’s a lot of public debate about this issue, I think it’s basically a silly little issue, it’s important to people. I get stopped every day, particularly by women with… working women with children saying, for goodness sake, why can’t… you know, why can’t they agree with you, why can’t we have the right just to do some of our shopping on a weeknight and keep our weekends free? And I agree with them, I think it’s very, very selfish for people to put their political agenda ahead of the rights and interests of just… people in our city.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
[Caller], good morning. [greetings not transcribed].
[CALLER]
My question is about uranium mining. Given that mill tailings of uranium mining are toxic and obviously need to be kept safe and out of the environment at large for tens of thousands of years. I am just wondering if you’ve done any cost benefit analysis of looking after those mill tailings for that length of time.
COLIN BARNETT
Look there are tailings but you know, uranium is a very common mineral. You know, the Darling Range has naturally occurring uranium through it and the uranium is extracted and what is left behind… yeah, there is an issue of managing it as there is in mineral sands mining and the like.
Now we have very strict mining laws and rehabilitation and environmental standards, and I am absolutely confident we’ll be able to run in this state, mining operations for uranium safely. And it’s a new growth and for people who are, you know, caring about the environment, the only really, at this stage, major solution to reducing greenhouse gases globally, is nuclear energy.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Well the first lease was signed yesterday, Mega uranium, how many do you reckon there’ll be?
COLIN BARNETT
I would expect within the next 10 years we’d have half a dozen uranium mines in Western Australia, we’ve got huge deposits.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
[Caller] good morning. [greetings not transcribed].
[CALLER]
I am the CEO of a family centre in the country and I’d like to draw your attention to a disparity that’s… we perceive in how we value services to the community. Last Friday we had an AGM and our committee did not find anything in the budget to pass any staff pay rises at all. On Monday they heard on the news that the CEO of Verve Energy received a pay rise of $90,000 or roughly twice what I earn per year, and I don’t have a nine to seven job either.
I know this is not an issue with the current government alone because we have been to the Labor Government as well, and have asked for a rise of the funding for the entire sector, and have not been able to achieve that either, but I would like you to have a look at what is happening here and that sector that is developing really valuable services to the community, not in monetary value but in development values whilst we are under funded.
COLIN BARNETT
Yeah [Caller], I take it you are talking about the community sector and all that the range of services are… that apply there and I agree, the sort of not for profit services in those areas are a critical part of our whole society. Now as a Government we are looking at more an approach of contracting out services to organisations maybe such as the one you’re referring to in your town. I think that was a better way to go. I am conscious also that many workers in the community services sector are low paid workers and many are, you know, are part volunteers, so we will as a Government, try and provide more support to that by doing more, or in fact put it this way, doing less within government and more using non-government organisations.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
[Caller] thank you for you call. Finally, Premier, the Football Federal of Australia says unless you commit to Subiaco Oval in a meaningful way, or bring out of mothballs the idea of a new stadium, there’s really no chance that Perth could feature in the likely or unlikely prospect of Australia holding a Soccer World Cup.
COLIN BARNETT
Well the bids for the Soccer World Cup is being coordinated by the Commonwealth; all the states are taking part, including Western Australia. The bid is for 2018, it is a way off. The sort of smart gossip is that Australia might not get that but we may well get 2022 – hopefully we get one of those bids – and Western Australia will have a compliant facility, a stadium, and we will see World Cup games in Western Australia.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Is that stadium idea just gathering dust?
COLIN BARNETT
No, it’s not, but I said when we came into Government that that issue would be put on hold for two years. We’ve gone nearly a year and it will stay on hold and as our finances improve, we will go back and we will revisit the development of a major sporting facility.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
If the reality is, and there is positive talk and Ken Henry of Treasury has been saying, you know, that the… that our resources sector are looking tremendously good, the prospects are tremendously good, why not plan… or do you think that now is not the time to be reassessing those things?
COLIN BARNETT
Oh look at a low level there’s been discussions…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… there’s always been.
COLIN BARNETT
Yeah…
GEOFF HUTCHISON
… isn’t that what all this…
COLIN BARNETT
… yeah but this Government Geoff, makes decisions. I’m not… I’m not a person that you know, carries on with talk for years, and football, the WA Football Commission have had a few informal meetings with me. The Minister, Terry Waldron, you know, we’re aware of it and we will make a decision about proceeding on a football and hopefully soccer compliant venue for the World Cup, but we’ll do that after those two years is up. Meanwhile, we’re talking to rugby and soccer about improving their facilities, and we’re talking to netball, you know and let’s not just think about the elite international sport, netball’s a high participation sport. I want to see as do other members of this Government, greatly improved facilities for that sport.
GEOFF HUTCHISON
Thank you for your time this morning. Colin Barnett.
Ends..